Overview: The following is an interview between Lynn Burnett and Jason Biehl, about Jason’s White antiracist work with young men, and about his graphic novel series, Unicorns: A Memoir for Young White Men. They also discuss the caucus space Jason facilitated for White boys and young men at a gathering to test the curriculum for Deliberate: White Antiracist Ancestors for White Youth, how the far-right actively courts White young men, and how we can respond and can nurture future lineages of happier, healthier, White men committed to social justice.

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Lynn: Before we jump into your graphic novel, I want to lay some groundwork, and ask what led you to your racial and gender justice work with White boys and young men.

Jason: I often start by saying that I went to an all-boys prep school, St. Albans, for nine years, 4^th grade through 12^th. A turning point in my life was in reading Nelson Mandela’s Long Walk to Freedom in college. I didn’t know who he was. I didn’t even know what apartheid was. I felt deceived by my elite education.

I took a leap of faith, and switched my major to African American studies. It was inspiring, but also confusing and emotional. I was too young to know how to apply it to myself. I didn’t understand Whiteness. I didn’t understand White privilege. After college, as I tried to position myself, I went towards Black community and multiracial community, trying to find belonging and allyship. I did some harm along the way.

It was through relationships with Black community and multiracial community that I heard the call, over and over again, of “White folks, go get your people“. I finally realized that I needed to listen to that call… and that I could make a positive impact by circling back to the young, confused White man I was at age 19 or younger.

Lynn: When you think about White boys and young White men, what are some of the struggles you see them facing? What can you imagine having been supportive in your own life, when you were on that part of your journey?

Jason: I actually went back to St. Albans recently and I led a workshop for an allies club. I told the young men that my experience had been a nine-year lesson in othering. There was sexism, racism, and homophobia. Part of the othering was also the atmosphere of competition, of everyone trying to beat out everyone else, of going along, following, not challenging. Something I write about in the graphic novel is feeling shame, for being part of things you don’t agree with, but don’t have the courage to go against. That’s a pattern with patriarchy, and with Whiteness.

Today, I would say the challenges facing young men and boys are even greater than when I was a kid, because we’ve got not only issues of mental health, loneliness, and anxiety, you’ve got social media, AI, too much screen time. You’ve got the manosphere preying on them, not enough friendships and meaningful human connections, and boys are falling behind girls academically.

Lynn: Social media is having a harmful impact on young people across the board. Can you speak more to how it impacts boys specifically? How does it make the loneliness epidemic more severe for them in particular?

Jason: As men, we’re losing our purpose. We don’t know exactly where we belong. In the US, we’ve made important strides towards gender justice, but  we haven’t replaced that old stereotype of the man being the breadwinner and the provider. Or we haven’t revised it in a way that gives young men a sense of purpose and value. If a group loses their original sense of purpose and it’s not replaced with something new, of course there will be problems.

Something I explore in the graphic novel is how racial justice, and being part of efforts for social justice in general, plays into that. Justice work can be difficult, but also life-giving and nourishing, a place where people find great purpose. Justice work can help us be more human, more connected, more compassionate. That’s what’s helped me grow, and find more purpose: being part of efforts to alleviate injustice.

Lynn: So, we have young men experiencing the lack of a meaningful role, the lack of belonging, the loneliness. And we have the manosphere taking advantage of that, preying upon and monetizing the alienation of young men. And not only the manosphere, but one of the foundations of the authoritarian moment we’re living in involves whipping up male grievance for political gain. And you’re saying that part of the solution is, or at least can be, helping young men find purpose in some kind of justice work?

Jason: As a mentor of mine, Paul Kivel has said: “It’s not just about our healing work, it’s about bringing White men in to help solve the greatest problems of injustice in the world.” We are the demographic that is most missing from racial, gender, and other forms of justice work. There are men’s groups that just focus on the inner work, and that’s important, it helps us be better fathers, better partners, better friends. But hopefully that healing work also helps us do the external solidarity work, the organizing and activism, which gives us meaning and purpose, community and connection. We don’t have enough spaces that help boys and men bridge those two – the inner and the outer work, and the way they strengthen each other.

Lynn: Since you bring up having spaces for that: you just co-facilitated a powerful caucus space for White boys, young men, and masculine-presenting people. This was in the context of a three-day gathering, where we both helped lead White youth through the lessons of White antiracist history. Can you reflect on the importance of caucus spaces like that?

Jason:  I’ll start by saying that each of these spaces is unique, and I’ve never been in a space quite like that…a caucus space that was fully intergenerational, a space exploring Whiteness that had multiracial folks as well as White folks, a space exploring masculinity that included gender fluidity and trans folks. It was a really diverse group of people where we could wrestle with masculinities and its impact on our lives. Just to highlight one moment, we did this chalk activity…

Lynn: I almost cried during that… seeing what those young men were wanting to release.

Jason: I know, right? So on the sidewalk,  we were writing components of the masks that we wear as men and masculine folks, and want to let go of. Those boys wrote some really powerful things, and then as part of the “burial,” we washed them all away.  

What I wrote was: “denying my sadness.” I have a hard time sitting with my sadness, and not running from heartbreak and grief. I’m writing about that currently in book two of Unicorns. I hope that by being vulnerable, that people can resonate with my story, and hopefully use it in different spaces like we did in the caucus space, to help others open up and be vulnerable too.

Lynn: Has there been a failure on the liberal-to-left political spectrum, when it comes to responding to the ways the right preys on the alienation of young men, and when it comes to thinking about what boys and men need from us in this changing world? And if so, what accounts for that?

Jason: Well, there’s a lot of people doing great work around how extremists prey on young men, befriending them on online gaming platforms, using humor to create that sense of belonging that they’re missing…humor which gets increasingly bigoted over time. I think, for example, of Cynthia Miller-Idriss and her recent book Man Up, and of The Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab at American University.

To your question, no, the left is 100% not responding to that well. There’s a lot that I agree with, like following the leadership of Black folks, immigrants, queer and trans folks, but we’ve also seen behaviors that are harmful, like just conflating White people with White supremacy. On some parts of the left, there can be ridiculing of White people, even a mocking of White folks trying to become antiracists and – surprise! – not being perfect at it from the very start. The right benefits when the left engages in self-righteousness, and the harsh judgment and dismissal of people.

We see a similar thing with cisgender men. There are understandable reasons. We’re living through rape culture, Epstein, Trumpism, you name it. Brett Kavanaugh’s hearing. Harvey Weinstein, the Me Too movement, and a staggering lack of accountability. I think there are understandably women who don’t have much compassion for men, and aren’t thinking about our healing as men. And yet, men’s healing is incredibly important for the safety of women and children. It’s important for the whole world, actually, and it’s men themselves who have the responsibility to do that work. Caucus spaces can help with that.

So, I get the wariness around White folks and White men. And, if we’re ever going to build enough power to fundamentally transform this country and beyond, then we need to embrace imperfect people, and welcome them into the movement.

Lynn: One of the things I try to get across in my White antiracist work is that being a White person engaged in antiracism can be a beautiful life, full of purpose and meaning and connection. But that’s not obvious. White folks need to see it being modeled, need to be shown that it’s a good life and be invited into it.  We need to be doing the same thing for White boys and White men…showing what it looks like to be a happy and healthy man, and how working for gender justice is an important part of that.

Jason: Yeah, it’s soul nourishing. 

Lynn: And how you got there yourself is the story you tell in Unicorns. When you imagine your graphic novel living out there in the world, what impact are you hoping for?

Jason: To give a little background, in 2021, a colleague of mine, Dr. Monet asked me: “Jason, how do White people change and become antiracist and anti-oppressive?”  I didn’t know, but I loved and felt challenged by the question.  Five years later, Unicorns is my attempt to answer it.

It’s a four-part series that examines some of my pivotal life moments of growth and change. Book one,  On Discomfort, is out. We’re finishing up book two, On Heartbreak, as we speak –  shout out to the terrific illustrator Zawadi Noël.  And then there will be On Grief and Joy, which is book three, and the last book will be On Love and Belonging.

 I want young men, boys, and really all people, to see themselves in this work, to feel valued and seen. I want folks to be curious, ask questions, and ultimately for this to help us be a bit more connected, loving, and human, in a country and world that really needs that right now.

Of course, I want to use this to work with White boys and men in particular, like we did in our caucus space; but I actually think it’s more universal than that. People of all kinds of identities have been sharing with me things the book brought up for them. There are themes that resonate with all of us, like navigating discomfort, or struggling with friendship.

Lynn: Can you share about how you used Unicorns in the caucus space we were just in?

Jason: Yeah. In the first pages, my classmates are using humor to mock Black people in a different part of the city. We read those pages in the circle together, and that led to a discussion with the youth about the things they hear and at times participate in, and that they aren’t happy about, but don’t necessarily know how to stop.

In book one, there’s a mini-arc where as a young person I go from being complicit to having the courage to say, “Hey, this is wrong.” That became an opportunity for the young men to reflect on how they might do that too.

Lynn: It was really beautiful to see, in that space, how this book could create a very accessible entry point for these youth. I’m thinking of how the middle schoolers in the group talked about the type of humor that they felt pressured to participate in, that was really demeaning to other people. Seeing how your book opened that whole subject up, and created a space of such reflection, for me was a very concrete example of how this book can have an impact in the world.

Jason: Thank you. I’m hoping to get these books into whatever spaces where they’ll be used. Parent’s groups, progressive schools, libraries, maybe some online and in-person book clubs. I’d like to get these into schools, but we’re living in such a repressive climate. One of my friends joked affirmingly: “you wrote a banned book in 2026!” 

Lynn: I’d like to offer a closing thought. I’ve long thought of White antiracism as a necessary component for undermining White supremacy, but in recent years I’ve also been thinking of it as necessary for undermining the potential for authoritarianism.

The same is true for fighting misogyny. It’s part of how we secure our democracy. Your book is a contribution towards those projects, by helping to undermine the bigotries authoritarianism preys on.  That’s all the reason we could ever need to put it to good use.

Jason: Amen to that! Thanks so much, Lynn. “I Believe That We Will Win!” 

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